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Flying huey with warthog

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Flying huey with warthog

Post by (B/229) Metzger on Tue 27 Dec 2016 - 10:38

Hi guys,

I got the warthog today, it feels really great but the spring is very stiff and I find flying choppers much harder now.
Please advice.

I m thinking buying an extension, any suggestions where can I find good one on a reasonable price ?

Thank you!
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Re: Flying huey with warthog

Post by (B/229) Cib on Tue 27 Dec 2016 - 10:50

Hi mate an extension is well worth it. I have a 15cm one and love it. I bought it off the ed forums sahaj I believe will post link tomorrow. I also removed the big spring so never had to trim. Since spitfire was released I replaced the spring and have to trim again. It takes some getting used to but the precision is awesome with the warthog

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Re: Flying huey with warthog

Post by (HHC/229) Dabomb on Tue 27 Dec 2016 - 11:05

Here you go. Your wrist will thank you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBMBR8M0z2E

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Re: Flying huey with warthog

Post by (D/229) Gizzy on Tue 27 Dec 2016 - 11:20

(B/229) Metzger wrote:....I m thinking buying an extension, any suggestions where can I find good one on a reasonable price ?

A good deal from a quality manufacturer..

You could even order all three sizes to cover many airframes for 95 euro.... some guys charge near this for just one....

Edit:
That'll give your either a..
7.5
10
12
17.5
19.5
29.5
take your pick...




http://mfg.simundza.com/blog/new-product-mfg-warthog-extensions/
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Re: Flying huey with warthog

Post by (HHC/229) flyer on Tue 27 Dec 2016 - 11:39

I watched (and used the same video instructions) that Dabomb posted and it's worked for me. I found the spring far to constricting and rigid for my taste. In the real world, I always used a lot of friction on my cyclic but that was a bit much.

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Re: Flying huey with warthog

Post by (A/229) Utley on Tue 27 Dec 2016 - 16:42

Removing the spring from the warthog is a very bad idea. Over time you will wear out the gimbals faster, along with the centering springs for the hub if you go that route. If you have the time and patience, and dont mind taking apart stuff, take the gimbals and all the other movable plastic stuff out of the joystick and sand the mold lines off, then lube it with a sturdy coat of EM30L or heavier lithium grease. The one caveat is that you should take pictures while taking everything apart that way you dont smash the ribbon cable on accident when you reassemble the stick.

One of these days Im going to do this...might do it now, now that I think of it. Also, there are plastic o-ring mods that replace the rubber o-ring inside the joystick that helps a lot too. Ill see if I can post a link for that replacement. The rubber o-ring likes to come loose after a while and jam up.
https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=95575

I send DaBomb a spare one I had, not sure how he liked it, but mine is awesome.
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Re: Flying huey with warthog

Post by (B/229) Metzger on Tue 27 Dec 2016 - 19:16

Thank you all for the advices.
I will take an extension and will see how it is with it and then decide for any moding.
I prefer not to take it apart or at least untill it is new and in warranty Smile
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Re: Flying huey with warthog

Post by (B/229) Metzger on Tue 27 Dec 2016 - 22:52

I have to note that some of the switches/hats feels clunky and plastic and way too stiff. On X52 hats are more easy to operate and the thortle handle feels smooter.
May be I still need to get used to it but currently Flying with the X52 was easier and smoother Smile
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Re: Flying huey with warthog

Post by (HHC/229) Dabomb on Wed 28 Dec 2016 - 0:40

(A/229) Utley wrote:Removing the spring from the warthog is a very bad idea. Over time you will wear out the gimbals faster, along with the centering springs for the hub if you go that route. If you have the time and patience, and dont mind taking apart stuff, take the gimbals and all the other movable plastic stuff out of the joystick and sand the mold lines off, then lube it with a sturdy coat of EM30L or heavier lithium grease. The one caveat is that you should take pictures while taking everything apart that way you dont smash the ribbon cable on accident when you reassemble the stick.

One of these days Im going to do this...might do it now, now that I think of it. Also, there are plastic o-ring mods that replace the rubber o-ring inside the joystick that helps a lot too. Ill see if I can post a link for that replacement. The rubber o-ring likes to come loose after a while and jam up.
https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=95575

I send DaBomb a spare one I had, not sure how he liked it, but mine is awesome.

A couple months ago, I actually performed this mod on my Warthog stick.  I tore it down, sanded the molding ridges off of the small inside ball as well as the two plastic guide pins that the ball swivels on.  Then greased everything up and reassembled (with the new O-ring --thanks Utley).  It's not an exercise for the faint of heart and is time consuming too, but I found it well worth it.  I still fly without the big spring, although I'll likely pick up an extension after the new year and see how that works out with the spring back in.

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Re: Flying huey with warthog

Post by (B/229) IJammer on Thu 29 Dec 2016 - 0:01

Utley's and Dabomb's advice sounds good... and I was also reluctant to remove the large centering spring to reduce the tension on the stick.  I do have a 120mm stainless steel extension and another 100mm tube waiting in the wings but would need to relocate my stick to use that (maybe later).  With the 120mm extension fitted it did reduce the tension quite a lot... but not as much as I would have liked, so, not wanting to remove the large spring, I tackled the four smaller springs that counter-act and fine tune the main spring tension.  I managed to find a 6" spring in my junk box that 'just' fitted over the original springs; I cut the spring into four equal lengths, added some lithium grease and hey-ho with these fitted to help the original four springs I managed to reduce the tension to almost zero.... if I let go of my stick now it will just about return to center and has just a smattering of tension/resistance.  Hope this helps...
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Re: Flying huey with warthog

Post by (B/229) evilivan on Thu 29 Dec 2016 - 0:32

@IJammer: could you post up a picture of your solution?

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Re: Flying huey with warthog

Post by (B/229) IJammer on Thu 29 Dec 2016 - 1:01

Ivan, unfortunately I did not think to take any pics while I had the stick apart... my hands were contaminated with lithium grease anyhow LOL.  If you can't locate any small springs to slip over the exsisting four, it is possible to add washers under the exsisting springs to increase their tension slightly.  I experimented with this until I found and settled on the additional springs.  It is amazing how just acouple of washers will alter the tension by some degree.  Here is a tube vid showing how... this guy removed his main spring and then put his smaller springs on top of the plate; I would not advise that... but it's up to you:-



If you have a local hardware shop you maybe able to find springs of the correct diameter/tension.  Of course if you find some stronger springs you may be able to leave out the original springs until you get it just how you want it.  Mix and match Smile
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Re: Flying huey with warthog

Post by (B/229) Metzger on Thu 29 Dec 2016 - 6:36

And how about if I make new spring same as the original big one but with thinner material so it will be softer ? I am about to order 120mm extension from mfg guys but still thinking about the spring. Currently huey and mi-8 are unflyable Sad
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Re: Flying huey with warthog

Post by (B/229) Cib on Thu 29 Dec 2016 - 6:40

That should work fine, it was fine without the spring for me but with Spitfire release I needed the centering

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Re: Flying huey with warthog

Post by (D/229) Gizzy on Thu 29 Dec 2016 - 7:48

Its really about finding something that suits you.

If you can make a lighter main spring go for it...

The weight of the extension will effect the felt pressure of the spring used though.  MFD's I believe are aluminium and light, steel ones like my old one would not go amiss on a main battle tank and are very heavy... Sad

Or if you want to change the 'set' of the main spring contact thrustmaster support as they may supply an original spring as a spare for experimentation.  The support team are very good - a low life errant lout of a cup of coffee decided to attack my throttle unit 2 months ago breaking the main PCB... the support team got me fixed up in a week at a reasonable price..

For me I went down all sorts of routes from no big spring and reversed small ones... to stiffer small ones... to compressing the large spring with zip ties then compressed bound with cotton...

All worked to some degree but... there was always something just not right... and I use a 12cm extension.

In the end I cut the big spring in half at the 1/3 - 2/3rds point... the 2/3rd works well for fixed wing then when I took the hots for rotaries I put the 1/3rd in but it was too small and the gimbal flopped  - I stretched the 1/3  spring  and popped it back in - now its perfect for me... its been like it for over a year... there is a difference in directional attitude as the base of the cut spring is not a constant pressure 360 degrees which is fine, I rotate the spring to a position where if you release, it it will slowly come back to centre in all planes except forward pitch where the weight of the steel extension keeps it where you left it but you can still 'feel' the centre and happily use the 'trim' function and easily return to centre...

Your mileage may vary ....
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Re: Flying huey with warthog

Post by (B/229) evilivan on Thu 29 Dec 2016 - 10:34

(B/229) Metzger wrote:And how about if I make new spring same as the original big one but with thinner material so it will be softer ? I am about to order 120mm extension from mfg guys but still thinking about the spring. Currently huey and mi-8 are unflyable Sad

Hey Metz. I've had the spring out for nearly a year now, and lots of flying, and so far no probs - so I can't say if Utley's concern that it will cause problems is correct or not, but the only problem I can see it causing is wearing out the remaining four springs, which shouldn't be too difficult to replace.

My set up is with the main spring removed, the four small springs reversed, and a 10cm extension. Works great for me. My joystick did have the stiction problem (you will know if you have this....) and so I did do the full take it apart, sand it down, grease it, etc. Hopefully you can avoid that...

As Gizzy says: your mileage may vary.

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Re: Flying huey with warthog

Post by (HHC/229) flyer on Thu 29 Dec 2016 - 12:12

I agree with evilivan.  I've had my spring out for more than a year and a half and have put quite a few flight hours on it with no negative results so far (Probably shouldn't had said that...will go tit's up on me now...lol).

I hope you guys don’t mind but I'd like to express my opinion concerning spring verses no-spring and the feel of the UH-1H cyclic. I kind of feel like that's why I’m here to impart some of the real world UH-1 attributes to the group.  This is by no mean to try to convince any 229th pilot that one way is better than another but to correlate that a spring in the Warthog would have the feel that you would find if flying a real world UH-1H with the cyclic friction fully tightened and no-spring would have the feel that you would find if flying a real world UH-1 with the cyclic having a small amount of friction added.

Some real world pilots refer a very tight cyclic and others prefer a very loose cyclic.  Each will fight for their preference arguing their qualities over others…just like each one of you.  I have my preference and will argue my points to nausea….lol.  What I’m seeing here is what happens in the real world with every pilot.  Each has a unique and special way that they want…no ”require” the feel of their controls (that's why they make controls adjustable)….I see the same thing here…what I see here are…pilots.

In the real world I preferred a lighter touch to the cyclic (i.e. friction just tight enough to feel some resistance) because I flew with my finger tips and try to replicate that in DCS world.  It gives you more precise control of the aircraft.  Haven't tried flying with an extension so don't know how this might change my opinion, but I'd certainly love to give it a try.

I guess my point is…this is a real world issue and every point is valid with a lot of great ways to “friction” our cyclic to taste and I appreciate seeing the debate.

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Re: Flying huey with warthog

Post by (B/229) Metzger on Thu 29 Dec 2016 - 20:25

Thank you guys.
I m ordering 120mm extension today.
I have a local guy who makes springs I will give him mine for refference and he will make me a softer one, let say half of the current one. Then I will se how it is.
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Re: Flying huey with warthog

Post by (B/229) Cib on Thu 29 Dec 2016 - 22:21

Find out the costs and if it is reasonable and you would post one out to me I may ask you to get 2 made. Smile

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Re: Flying huey with warthog

Post by (B/229) Metzger on Thu 29 Dec 2016 - 22:27

No problem Cib. I will check with him after the holidays and will let you know. It should be fairly cheap but I have no idea currently.
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Re: Flying huey with warthog

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